Tamara Kissane: 00:00:08

This is artist soapbox. Through interviews and original scripted audio fiction. We deliver stories that speak to your hearts and your minds.

Juliana Finch: 00:00:27

Hey soap boxers. It's Juliana. Today, I'm bringing you a conversation with singer songwriter, story, coach copywriter, author speaker, that guy who writes on his car, Brian Perry. Brian Perry and I have known each other for about a decade now, which feels a little surreal to say, because it does feel a little bit like yesterday. He's an amazing person and so wise and so positive. Every time I talk to Brian, I feel better for having done so, and I hope you'll feel the same way for having listened to him. You can find him online at yes brian Perry. That's on all the platforms at yes brian Perry and I hope you will get a lot out of this episode. I certainly did just by having a conversation with him. So enjoy. Brian Perry, welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're here.

Brian Perry: 00:01:27

Thank you. I'm so grateful to be here Before we get started, wanna tell you something funny, like a year or so. Maybe a back. I stumbled upon like auto play on my podcast app. It played something from Artist Soapbox. Oh, wow. And, and at that time, wouldn't allow me to see my listening history. This was by listening to through apple podcast. And I couldn't find it. I was like, that was really cool. I wanna know more and I could never find it. And then you, when you reached out about this, when I looked it up, I went, this is what I'm looking for. So

Juliana Finch: 00:01:54

you found us the universe's algorithm worked in your favor. Indeed. Yeah. Artist soapbox has been a lot of fun. I've done a few audio drama things with them and a couple interviews myself back in the day. And, and now we're moving in this fun, new direction where we get to have a whole team of podcast hosts talking about stuff that we care. I love it. I love

Brian Perry: 00:02:14

it. The diverse projects and such you're involved with my friend.

Juliana Finch: 00:02:18

Great. So you and I have known each other for a long time, and we've had these conversations about the creative process, just personally on the phone a bunch of times. And so I'm excited to be able to have one of those Brian and Juliana conversations. You know, in a place where other people will get to hear it. Me too. And I know you primarily from being a songwriter since we're both songwriters, but you've also got a lot of other stuff going on. You've been a coach, you've been a public speaker, motivational speaker, you've, you're an author. What do you have going on right now? What's happening in your world?

Brian Perry: 00:02:49

You know, what's happening right now is really an integration of all that I think for too long, I've kind of seen my artistic creative hats, siloed them out from the rest of my world. You know, I have. My day job stuff, and my night job stuff in the last, really over the course of the pandemic, I've been recognizing the through line of what I do, which for me really revolves around story and calling people more deeply into living and experiencing the story they wanna live in their lives. So what I'm really engaged in right now is integrating all the things that I do. Because boy that all plays out functionally is I, I do that as a singer songwriter. I do that as a story coach, as a copywriter, as an author, as a speaker. And so, yeah, so I'm kind of liberating myself to live a more cohesive creative life. And what that looks like right now, pragmatically is I'm in the midst of rebranding and relaunching my reintroducing myself to the world digitally.

Juliana Finch: 00:03:44

I love the idea of reintroducing yourself to the world when you're doing something new. That's really cool. I like.

Brian Perry: 00:03:51

It feels, it feels good. It feels like a fresh start. It feels like. I mean, I think we're all coming outta, coming to wherever this new phase of the pandemic is and looking in our closets and going, Ugh, I don't like any of these clothes anymore. And I sort of feel that metaphorically in my own broader life as I step out in the world, like, yeah, no, none, this, none of this fits me. I need to put on different digital clothes and reintroduce myself. So yeah,

Juliana Finch: 00:04:14

totally. Well, let's get into it. I use this podcast to talk about writer's block and creative blocks. Has that happened for you sometime in the recent past? What was that like for you?

Brian Perry: 00:04:27

Oh, so absolutely it's happened in the way it tends to happen is it tends to surprise me. I'll just suddenly start to feel really heavy and I'll, and, and in that I'll. I get restless and heavy and just kind of don't feel good in my own skin and I'll notice, wow, I haven't written anything in a long time. And that so rapidly turns into a story about how I'm never gonna write again. I mean, it just spirals, but I think where creatives run into trouble, particularly songwriters or, or storytellers, people that self identify as storytellers in whatever medium is that we're good at telling stories. And, and so the moment that I go, oh my gosh, I haven't written a song in whatever the date I'm imposing on myself. I don't just leave it there and kind of observe that, you know, objectively, immediately assign meaning and story to it. And that's, that's a, it doesn't serve me. It tends to, it tends to, to entrench me in the notion rather than showing me a way through. Used to say, when I was coming out of, um, my divorce, I, I used to say I'm clear about three things. I don't know the plan. I don't know what shit means. And I get myself in trouble when I pretend either one and I feel that to be really true with my creativity, there tends to be a bit of an outcomes razor moment in my own head around the stories I tell when I hit writer's block moment. where, you know, what's, if I weigh these two theories, one that I'm never gonna write again, because I haven't written in six weeks or two months or six months or two, I've been writing for, you know, whatever 25 years or so. And I have a, I have a long history of being a writer and sometimes that means not writing, which of those stories is true. you know, the simple, the simpler one, which is, Hey, I've been writing a long time. This happens. So. is the more true, but it doesn't feel that way. And it doesn't feel that way because it's when I feel most like me when I, when you're writing. Yeah. Yeah. That's I think that's really the bottom line is that, is that it's, it's not that I'm afraid that I'm never gonna write it's I'm afraid. I'm never gonna feel like me. I'm never gonna understand why I'm on this planet again.

Juliana Finch: 00:06:49

Gosh, I think that's so true because we, so much of our identities gets wrapped up in our. Yes. And that's, you know, pretty unusual for, there are certainly other, other jobs, other professions that have that. But I think artists, especially, we put so much of ourselves into the work that it's very hard to feel like if you're not doing the work you're losing yourself.

Brian Perry: 00:07:11

Yes, exactly. There's so many ways that happens on your artistic journey. Certainly professionally, you feel like you start to lose yourself if you're. Achieving certain goals and certain thresholds. I, yeah, I went through this a while back as you know, well, it's still going through it in many ways because I've ran in some health challenges around my voice that prevented me from performing in the way that I wanted to. And, and in many ways, writing in the way I wanted to, I couldn't count on my instrument and yeah, it felt writer's block for me comes on issues like that. Come on, like identity. I mean it's it's and that's not to be dramatic. It feels like identity theft now, because it doesn't honestly the, the, the highs and lows of success in any profession, they come and go, well, whoever your iconic artist is, everybody rides a rollercoaster there, but it always, fundamentally for me, comes back to the experience of sitting in my room, writing a song. It just it's every time blows me away. And when it's not there, I just, I lose

Juliana Finch: 00:08:08

me. Yeah. It sounds like you have a good way of telling yourself to look at the real history, to look at the actual legacy of 20. So something years of writing, instead of the story that you're making up in your head, which I think is a great tool for people to use, what else helps you when you feel like, cuz for me, I feel like when I'm in it, I don't necessarily know when it's gonna be over, but there comes a time when I'm feeling like it's starting to end. Right. Doesn't just suddenly end for me. What helps you. To get to that place and to, and to feel hopeful around the process. Again, you know,

Brian Perry: 00:08:45

there's a few things that pop up for me immediately. When you say that I have, I, I have a journey around mental health things like, uh, depression and anxiety and, and such. And one of the things that my nearest and dearest, including you will say, if I'm in a dark chapter in some form or another, we always say to each other, it will lift. Just remember that part. It will lift. I don't know how, I don't know when, but it will. I kinda remind myself that when it comes to writer's block, but I also, I'm getting in a better habit of learning to stop demonizing discomfort. Ooh, too often we treat discomfort. Like it's our enemy in areas that we hold precious, writing being one of them. in a way that we don't do the same demonizing. Like you don't go to the gym, have a killer workout, wake up sore the next day and think, oh no, it's not working. You think it is working

Juliana Finch: 00:09:34

right? Oh yeah. And similarly, like the gym, there's a difference between like a soreness from using that muscle versus like an injury. Exactly. Those are different, different feelings.

Brian Perry: 00:09:44

Exactly. And I, I think so. I think that the more I'm able to stop demonizing the discomfort of that moment. Hey, I'm not writing. It's not working. It's not happening right now. The more I'm able to listen to it. There's a, uh, as you know, my most recent book was the myth of certainty and other great news. And it was really me trying to figure out how to embrace life, knowing that there wasn't ever gonna be some lottery ticket arrival after which everything was gonna be okay. That, but that's not coming. That's not a real thing. So what does that look like? And there's two things that came up that have emerged for. As sort of anchor bits of wisdom since then. And that is this notion from Epictetus, Greek stoic philosopher, which I'll the bumper sticker version of his wisdom is we're not disturbed by things, but by the view we take of them. It's not the thing itself, but the view I'm taking of it. Okay. Well, that's interesting. So this discomfort, this, this fallow period, I'm not traumatized by it because it's happening. It's because of what I'm deciding about. That's the story piece and the others from a different philosopher from the 20th century, Jerry Seinfeld Um, and, and he was an episode of comedians and cars getting coffee. He was talking with Trevor Noah about pain, like ouch pain. And he said, I've come to the conclusion that pain is knowledge rushing into fill a gap, stub your toe knowledge. There's a table there, and you're not paying attention to where you. So when I take those two pieces of information and I go, okay, I'm really uncomfortable in this moment because I'm, I'm not having that creative outlet. That brings me such joy. And, and if I greet that and decide, okay, well I'm is discomfort. That's a fact is discomfort. Yeah. Um, what do I do with it? Pain is knowledge rushing into feel like, yeah. Okay. What is it telling me? And that's when I, speaking of the gym, sort of get to the gym, metaphorically speaking very often. It's telling me that I'm not doing things. To cultivate, I've gotten, you know, you know, Chuck cannon, right? Yeah.

Juliana Finch: 00:11:41

I did a workshop with him a long time ago.

Brian Perry: 00:11:42

Oh, did you? Yeah. And you know, he used to sail this a lot on it. Probably still does on six man cruises and has a number of big hits in the country, music world and such. And on one of those cruises, I, I grabbed, I grabbed Chuck and, and. I sailed with him a number of times, but I never really talked with him, was a little bit intimidated by him and I, on the way out of the office there on ship, I went, Hey, Chuck, let me grab him. And if you don't mind that you don't notice about me, but I'm actually a singer songwriter. And I was curious, what do you do when it comes to writer's block? Cause I'm not writing the way at that point. I was not writing well, and I was, I was just really unsatisfied with what was coming out and he's, and he looked at me hesitation. He said he don't believe in writers' lives. No such thing. As writers, blog, just lazy writers. He was right. I have come to learn. It's a misinterpretation of what the discomfort is telling me. The discomfort is telling me it's time to shift into a different relationship. I've read an issue of the performing songwriter magazine many years ago, a similar take guy saying, well, I don't believe in writer's block. I believe that I have input periods and output periods. Yeah, exactly. And, and when it's an output period, it's incumbent upon me to listen carefully and set everything aside, you know, be ready to receive when, when it wants to come out. And when it's an input period, it's incumbent upon me to, to do the. Which is turns out joyful because the work for me, anyhow, looks like reading things that inspire me, listening to things that inspire me, watching things that inspire me. I don't mean inspire me to write. I mean, just inspire me that ECHA me. That caused me to feel something, to create creating quiet so that I'm become a better listener when ideas do arrive. And just, there is an element of trust in that in just showing. To the cultivation, but I think there's also an element of honoring, um, there's for me, Elizabeth Gilbert talked and her Ted talk about there's essentially, you don't have to like that. I feel this way, but there's some kind there's magic at foot in creativity, straight up magic. Woo, woo. Magic. Up and about happening there. You know, however Nashville wants to try to systematize it. There's an element of magic. That's. and I think part of my responsibility, having been given what feels to me like a really sacred gift of being able to create whether, whether anybody else likes it or not, it's irrelevant. Somehow I get to write song. That's freaking amazing. That blows my mind. And so I, I love the notion that my job and this relationship is to prepare

Juliana Finch: 00:14:17

the way. Yeah. And some, sometimes that preparation means, you know, remove the things that are distracting you from the time to write that you want to have, because it is an output period. It's time to do it. Yeah. Or, and sometimes it means, like you said, sit back and listen, stop beating yourself up about not writing because what you're supposed to be doing is listening so that you have something to say.

Brian Perry: 00:14:39

Yeah. Exactly. That period of listening, it feels like my job is to just fill myself with. like, so to, to, to deepen the colors that I have available to my brush so that when the muse strikes again, have new colors to offer. Um, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Juliana Finch: 00:14:58

And I love that you're using a visual metaphor, cuz for me when I'm needing some inspiration, one of the things I love to do is go to an art museum. Because it's not my medium, you know, it's not my art form, but it's really inspiring and, and seeing a great film or going to listen to music. That's not your genre of music can really sort of open things up. I think absolutely. When you're stuck. Absolutely.

Brian Perry: 00:15:23

I, I couldn't agree more. I, you know, I also have a, I have a daily practice is something I took from the, uh, uh, new thought author, Eckhart Tolle I have a daily practice of just setting aside a few minutes. To look to just sit in a space and notice things, same way you would in an art gallery where you're just drinking in an image. Well, we're surrounded by art all the time fundamentally. And I just take the time to notice the lines and things, or to notice the way the light hits something. I am filling my brain with imagery. I'm filling my brain with perspective and so much of, I think what we do as artist, regardless of your medium. Is that we are directing the emotional eye to something. We want you to notice an aspect of, of something I've I've often said that I feel like part of my job as a songwriter is I'm essentially an emotional journalist, you know, taking careful notes on what it is to be human. And that involves noticing. Colors textures emotions. Yeah. And, and like you and I were talking about, I, I, one of the things that's been a huge blessing for me during this, during the pandemic is how much of the songwriting world, how much the artistic world in general, like everything else has moved online. And for me, for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is some while I can, I love being on a stage also wildly introverted and, uh, and inclined to being a, her. The, the ability to connect with other artists online has been amazing. One of the groups that I've gotten involved with during this time is a result of a workshop that I saw Bonnie, a songwriter astonishing, just human offer. She introduced to this group called thinking outside the pulled up website. Before I got this call. Cause the gospel of thinking outside the blocks dot. Yeah,

Juliana Finch: 00:17:16

we can put that in the show notes too, for great to might wanna check it out. They're

Brian Perry: 00:17:20

Beste are the two astonishing talents and professionals. Who've put that to community together and it's essentially community of songwriters specifically, but I get exposed to that community. We do a lot of like writing to prompts and just continue to develop in our craft, studying different elements of the craft. These are all things you do when you're not writing or when you. But again, they're creating, they're telling the muse I am here for this. I am not just here to keep writing the same song I wrote 10 years ago.

Juliana Finch: 00:17:49

Thank you. And they have, they have time constraints too, right? Yeah.

Brian Perry: 00:17:52

So, yeah. So like when we do for one of the consistent challenges, we, we do classes every Saturday. We have prompts throughout the week and conversations throughout the week that go on. But once a month we do what they call blockbuster challenge, the air quotes, but you can't see them and, and they'll give you on a Thursday, they give you a prompt. And a restriction like, like this past week or so ago, we did the prompt was winning and losing right. About something about that. And the restriction was something about using intervals, deciding on an interval you're gonna use. And it was interesting cause it was kinda like backing in starting with the music and then backing into the lyrics. Doesn't matter all that's, I'm getting, going down the rabbit hole a little bit, but yes, we have a restriction. The idea is here's your prompt Thursday afternoon. By the next Thursday, you need to submit. To the group, a fully recorded and written song go, it doesn't have to be good. Just have to be written. And what that's helped me to do is a it's gotten me exposed to a ton of different sounds. Cause I'm just a focus singer. I read a I've read songs on a acoustic guitar and I I've, I've never really branched out into production or, or, uh, rich arrangements or anything. I bring other people in for that. Yeah. You know, I think what I do is I, I do other things as you know, with the speaking and other things that I. I think that's where I get that itch scratched, but all those different sounds I get exposed to through the group, the restriction itself, it grows me all the time and expands my sense of what's possible. But here's the important thing that I've learned. It's made me so much less precious. Yeah. And, and I didn't realize that my preciousness was getting in the way of my process.

Juliana Finch: 00:19:31

Um, yeah, that was one of the big things I took from, I spent a little bit of time in Nashville years ago and just do doing these co-writing meetings where it's, you know, four people in a room trying to write a country song. And one of the things I really learned from them was like, just know whether it's serving the song or not, and let it go if it's not working and it's okay. It doesn't, it's not the last idea you'll ever have.

Brian Perry: 00:19:53

Exactly. That's exactly right. When I was touring full time, I literally would. Every time I drive through Nashville would roll down the window and give it the middle finger. And I just, I just felt like it was like the evil empire. And then years later I was blessed to be invited to a songwriting camp up there. Beth Nielson Chapman, or actually go ahead and just offer her name as by way of gratitude. Who's a very talented hit writer. She wrote this kiss for faith hill mm-hmm and she invited me to the songwriting camp after I wrote her a letter after Katrina I'm back in new Orleans and anyway, went up there and she really encouraged me to get involved writing in Nashville. And I had this aha moment. I went, oh, right. I can learn to write in different ways and it doesn't have to compromise what I do. It's just another tool I get in my tool set. After that camp, I started going up there once a month. I'd spend a week up. Like you're saying take like three or four writing appointments a day. And, and that was so again, healing in terms of going, oh, right. The way this works is you write songs and that's how you become better at writing songs. what a concept. Right? And the way you do that is you, you know, in Nashville in a way, is you walk into a room. What do you got? I used to love the conversation we walk in. So what are we doing? Are we killing somebody? Are they falling in love? What are they doing? What's happening? you know, Again, all that helped me become less precious and brought me back to, or brings me back to one of the things that I love most about being able to do this craft. And that is, you know, you and I have both done. You still do acting, we've both done other creative endeavors that work a little bit different than music. For me. The goal with music has always been, Hey, if you really become wildly successful, yes. You get to perform and be on amazing stages and all that. But basically you get to get to write for a. You get to write songs for a living in, in our industry. The beauty of that is the way you get the opportunity to do that is by writing better songs. And the way you do that is by writing song. so, so I get to do the thing that if I'm wildly successful is what I'm doing, the thing to get to do.

Juliana Finch: 00:22:00

Right. You're already doing it. Like the measure of success is not the thing that determines whether you're a songwriter or not. It's that's right. Whether you're writing songs or not.

Brian Perry: 00:22:09

That's right. And that continues to be the thing that brings me the most joy. Now we'll say I remember Amy Ray for any girl she years ago in an interview was being asked about writer, blah. And she was also sort of defying the notion. and saying that becomes really important to let yourself write crappy song and because the crappy songs get you to the good songs. And I can tell you in this thinking outside the blocks group every month, there are people that post songs that they're like, I really don't like this one, but, and then everyone will be like, but that one line circle back to that, that's a great song, you know, or people will submit something. They'll be like, I didn't really get, I got like 30 seconds of the song. That's all I've got. Okay, great. That's something you continue to tell the use. I'm here for this. I'm here for. So I want it to be simpler than that. I want writer's block to be like, Hey, I can just take a pill or flip a switch, but that's me demonizing discomfort. I think that writer's block ultimately is pointing me to where I'm ready to level up in some way. And happily that be kind of turns out to be a bit of a joyful process.

Juliana Finch: 00:23:08

So it sounds like for you, like having accountability, external accountability is a really helpful tool. Because you've got this group that you're, you've gotta turn the thing in which I think is great. I think that's something that's really helpful. If people are stuck is just like find a friend and tell them what you're trying to do. Yes. Like today I wanna write a chorus and I'm telling you, because if I only tell myself I can ignore myself yes, but I can't ignore my friend who I said I would do this for. And also I think having like time constraints is really helpful or any kind of constraint. I know when I used to write primarily poetry. For me, it was fun to play in form, you know, and like, choose, choose a form for a poem. You could do that with a song too, of course. And just be like, okay, I'm only gonna write this certain rhyme scheme and it can kind of get the juices flowing that way.

Brian Perry: 00:23:56

These are all tools, right? Yeah. I mean, they're all, they're all tools that help us. What I, what I'm learning is at this point in my life, I turned 50 in a few months. At this point in my life. I'm returning to what mattered to me when I started doing this when I was 20. And that is. I am obsessed with this craft. I think it's, it's miraculous. It changes. I have songs that have saved my life. You. No uncertain terms. And so for me, I wanna just keep growing. I wanna keep learning. And when I hit those fall periods, which let's make no mistake, they suck. When, when you're there, it's, it's an awful feeling, but it, it seems to direct me to, Hey, how do I keep learning? And, you know, and just kinda running through quick tips that really are useful to me. Somebody in Nashville years ago said, here's what I need you to do. I want you to get up every day and I want you to set a timer for five minutes and I want you to. At least four Stans in that five minutes and I don't need it to be good. I just need it to be done. And that's one of those things that when I catch myself, Hey, I'm not writing right now. When was the last time you did that? I haven't been doing that at all. It's five minutes. I can do five minutes. And when I do it directs my thinking I just, the copywriter on me. It directs my thinking to what I wish I was thinking, you know, it's, it's, it directs my thinking to, to, to how to think like a songwriter and see like a, so. Books do that too. Reading the right reading books on creativity. Do that for me, listening to podcast on creativity like this one and remembering that it's not a glitch, the feature of the process of living a life as a creative helps me to feel. It's like, it's actually kind of a sign of a membership card. I, you know, I stepped into copywriting during the pandemic. And one of the things I say to my accountability partners in that group is I say, I love how often we'll show up and be like, so how's your work on that thing going that you're working on? How's it going? And one of us will be like, you know, it's, it's going, it's such a mess right now. It's like chaos, which means it's probably about to come. Mm. Yeah, you, you start to recognize this is part of process and not a, not a glitch in it. I saw Paul Simon speak years ago at Emory Emory university in Atlanta. He was invited there to be, he was the first time they invited a songwriter for particular artist and residence program thing they were doing. I don't know what it's called, but doesn't. I remember sitting there in the congregation. I say it that way. Cuz we were in a church, but for me it felt like church. I mean it's Paul Simon and, and he said he was asked about what he is working on. And he said something like he hadn't written a song in seven years or something. And that simultaneously was deeply affirming and made me wanna run from the building screaming.

Juliana Finch: 00:26:41

Right? Like it doesn't get

Brian Perry: 00:26:42

better. right. What are you talking about? That's don't tell me that you're you've written. Half of the modern American songbook, but you know, it's just, it's part of the process.

Juliana Finch: 00:26:54

Yeah. And it's always part of the process. It's not a thing that gets cured in the sense that like you mature out of it or you become good enough that it doesn't happen to you. It happens to even Paul Simon for God's sake.

Brian Perry: 00:27:06

Yeah. Part of the process is so critical. I'm trying to, I'm trying to make a distinction in my mind that I'm not sure how to make, it's not it's it's not about for me on a daily basis. It's not about embracing it like, oh, this is part of the process. And so I tolerate it. It's really celebrating it as part of the process, somehow coming to a place of going, this is a gift I'm being offered right now that I'm not writing well, lemme put it this way. One of the things that's helped to me and you've been a, a model to me in this regard. You're very, you've been very good at navigating the business side of being a creative in many. I think for me over the years, I spent way too many years demonizing the business side. But, but the business isn't antithetical to what I love about the craft, the business supports the art supports the business, supports the art it's. It's what allows me to do it in the same way that my dry period support my growth, which supports my fertile periods, which supports my growth. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And again, none of this is easy. It's all always say in my social media post, I'm always like, you know, whenever, whenever always shares we're people, particularly on social media are always sharing answers. Like it just now that now you've got it. No, that's it takes it's it's practice. It's practice. There's a reason that there are monks in monasteries and they're doing, and they're meditating all the time and then it takes practice. All these things take practice, everything. Absolutely. Everything you're good at takes practice. Usually when I hit a fallow period, I'm not practicing in some way.

Juliana Finch: 00:28:45

So I wanna end with something a little unusual. Like normally I would ask people like, what's a tip that you wanna leave artists with, but because I have you here and I happen to know that you had a project that's been going on for a long time, where you write inspirational messages on the back of your. And drive around town and people get to see them and photograph them. And you've done it for my car when I went on tour, which was awesome. It was so great. So if you had a hindsight, if you had something that you would leave on the rear window of our listeners car, and that listener is a person who hasn't written anything in a while and just really hoping they'll be able to do that again. What do you think that might say? That's nice.

Brian Perry: 00:29:29

Well, may I frame what the hindsights are real quick? Yeah, absolutely. Short version of the long story back in 2009, my, my beloved new Orleans saints went to the super bowl and hell froze over. And, uh, and when I went to new Orleans to, to be there, to celebrate the game and watch, watch the game there with friends, I rode on the back of my car, like, you know, who dad, all that kind of stuff and honk of your same fan. And, and the response was so fun that when I got back, I, I decided to throw up like a motivational quote there that I just thought was. And I'm saying pens that people use for just married or graduation or whatever, it's a paint pen, the window marker. And I write that on the back of my windshield. And I started doing that with motivational quotes. And again, the response that I received from people, not like how cool you are, but the response that people coming up and being like, gosh, that really means a lot to me. Thank you. I needed that today. It was really powerful. And then I started to notice how it was changing my perspective, cuz I would see it in my rear view mirror and it would surprise. and, and so I then started to use it intentionally and I would essentially not more or less a weekly basis, I still do coach myself going, what is the one thing, if somebody said to me right now came up to me randomly on the street and said blank, and it would be exactly the words that I need to hear in this moment. What would that be? And that changes because I'm constantly trying to change or practice. A new perspective, change of thought, change, shift my perspective on something and allow myself to live and as a result of different experience. So that's where the hindsights come from. They're never, they're very rarely anyway, about something that I'm trying to put up. That's clever. They're almost always about something I'm trying to, I'm trying to shift. Yeah. And so in this, in the context of what we're talking about here, a hindsight that I would offer returning to your question, somebody that that's dealing with, writer's blog, that's dealing with these kind of. My first reaction when you said that was, was this. So I'll go with my first reaction was to say it's working yeah. Keep, keep going, keep growing. It's it's working. That's it. This, I love this is, this is, this is, this is, this is what it looks like to be a creative. How cool is that fact that you are churned up? Because you're not writing means that, you know, you can write how cool is. The fact that you wish you were writing something better means, you know, there's something better. How cool is that it's working? Just, just keep growing

Juliana Finch: 00:31:55

it's working. I love it. Thank you so much, Brian. This has been an awesome conversation and I know that our listeners, thank you are gonna get a lot out of it. And where can people find you if they want to find you on the internet?

Brian Perry: 00:32:07

So I I'm on yes. Brian perry.com as in the opposite of no, Y yes. BRIANPERRY com. And yes, Brian Perry on Instagram, Facebook and

Juliana Finch: 00:32:20

LinkedIn. All right. And I hope people will find you and I look forward to hearing what's next in your world. It's always something

Brian Perry: 00:32:27

exciting. And thank you, Juliana. I mean, this has been really a treat to, to have this conversation and, and to, to talk with our creative tribe, we. Beautiful growing, striving, challenged. Dysfunctional, highly functioning, poetic, artistic family. and I'm grateful to be part of it. So

Tamara Kissane: 00:32:52

Established in 2017, artist soapbox is a podcast production studio based in North Carolina. Artist soapbox produces original scripted audio fiction and an ongoing interview podcast about the creative process. We cultivate aspiring audio Dramatists and producers, and we partner with organizations and individuals to create new audio content for more information and ways to support our work. Check out artist soapbox.org, or find us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. The artist soapbox theme song is ashes by Juliana Finch.